Exclusif JSS: Lieberman's interview (transcrypt) on Russian TV
Interview with Minister of Foreign Affairs Avigdor Liberman on
Israel's Channel 9 TV, broadcasting in Russian
Friday, June 5, 2009
[translated from Russian for the JSS Blog]
Natasha Gurevich: Good evening. Today is Friday, June 5 and it is the end of the work week. The time has come to look back and analyze the events that have occurred over the past few days. Among them are several developments that could, to some extent, influence the course of history – our history. The visit by Israel's Minister of Foreign Affairs Avigdor Liberman to Moscow is one such remarkable event. This visit is now officially concluded and the Israeli delegation's plane has landed at the Ben Gurion Airport just an hour ago. I would now like to welcome Mr. Liberman to our studio.
Good evening, Mr. Liberman. I am glad that we will be the first to hear about the outcome of this visit. I believe that you have something to add to what we have already seen. But first, let us address the issues that concern us most.
Mr. Avigdor Liberman: First of all, we must mention another historic event - the Six Day War. Today, when we hear the words of the President of the United States of America, when discussing the settlements, we cannot ignore the anniversary of the Six Day War.
Natasha Gurevich: Incidentally, while on the topic of the Americans… Israel's relations with Russia and your recent visit there have caused some resentment among Americans, because you went there to find a new strategic partner. Naturally, our main strategic partner - the United States of America - was somewhat offended and has become nervous.
Mr. Avigdor Liberman: I have seen this nonsense in certain media sources - there is no other way to describe it. We had discussed our strategic partnership with Russia with the Americans ahead of time, and not only did they agree to this, but they outright welcomed it. U.S. President Obama is planning to visit Moscow at the beginning of July.
We are completely aware that our main strategic partner has been and remains the United States of America. For us, there is no alternative to the USA. However, in addition to - and I mean specifically 'in addition to' rather than 'instead of' - our traditional approach in Washington, I am trying to develop a few more directions in South America, Africa, Russia, Central Asia, and India. In addition to the track with our American counterparts - again, we do not mean 'instead of', since for us there is no alternative to the U.S.A - we would like to add some diversity in our foreign policy. And, of course, Russia is a key player.
As one of the permanent Security Council members, Russia holds veto power and it has a very powerful military industry. The supply of Russian military equipment cannot help but concern us. Russia has long played a role in the Middle East and it has a good understanding of the overall picture in this region. I would like to say that, in many ways, Russia's position in relation to Israel has unquestionably changed for the better.
Natasha Gurevich: Is this the reason they are talking to Hizbullah and Hamas?
Mr. Avigdor Liberman: Let's say that Egypt, for instance, is talking with Hizbullah and Hamas, although it's our closest...
Natasha Gurevich: Yes, but Egypt is not our strategic partner.
Mr. Avigdor Liberman: Actually, Egypt is more than just our strategic partner. In recent years, Egypt and Israel have been coordinating their actions on a daily basis. We have far too many interests in common, not to mention a shared border. I would like to say something with regard to our other traditional partner, France. Just the day before yesterday, the French President hosted Mr. Mutaki, Iran's Minister of Foreign Affairs. Of course, we cannot force our will on others. We try explaining our position; we try to convince our partners to change their position or to understand us, to see things from our point of view. This applies to the USA as well. For instance, we cannot achieve full agreement with the USA since there exist some divisive issues between us, and this is natural.
Natasha Gurevich: You just mentioned Iran. Tell me please, how much faith do you place in the assurances of your Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, that Iran will only use nuclear energy for peaceful purposes? It is clear that today the Kremlin is run by intelligent people. They certainly understand that today's civilian nuclear program in Iran can become tomorrow's military nuclear program. Don't they understand that this is a threat not only to Israel, but to all mankind, including Russia?
Mr. Avigdor Liberman: I think that the whole world should reconsider its perception of nuclear weapons and certain countries' desire to acquire nuclear weapons. We had the recent example of North Korea. With no connection whatsoever to Israel, I observed the kind of reaction this caused in Japan (the second largest economy in the world after the USA) and in South Korea (also a very powerful state). And today, the new perpetrator is Iran. We see what is happening in Pakistan, which already possesses nuclear weapons - how unstable it is. Thus, this is not an Israeli problem, but one facing the entire world.
Natasha Gurevich: nonetheless, Russia is helping equip Iran, if not with weapons, at least with so-called peaceful nuclear energy capacity.
Mr. Avigdor Liberman: You know, yesterday I watched the speech made by the President of the USA. He too, unfortunately, recognized Iran's right to develop a civilian nuclear program. Hence, from my point of view, this attempt by various powers, including France and Germany, to create an artificial differentiation between civilian and military nuclear energy.
Natasha Gurevich: But Israel will be the last to do so.
Mr. Avigdor Liberman: All these countries agree that we must differentiate between civilian and military nuclear energy. The distance between the two is extremely short. Such a proposition is completely unacceptable to us.
Natasha Gurevich: Naturally. You also met with Vladimir Putin. To the extent that we are acquainted with this man, he really comes across as a rather interesting and charismatic individual. We perceive him as an uncompromising fighter against terrorism. How did he explain the tolerance towards terrorists fighting against Israel? Or are we perhaps talking about a different kind of terrorist?
Mr. Avigdor Liberman: First of all, Vladimir Putin is certainly one of the today's most prominent leaders. We request reciprocity and equality. We would like reciprocity in matters of historical remembrance and we will not tolerate any attempts to falsify history. This applies not only to the role played by certain SS divisions or Nazi officers. Denial of the Holocaust also represents this same distortion of history.
Natasha Gurevich: Did you gain the understanding of your colleagues in Moscow?
Mr. Avigdor Liberman: They understand us in Moscow. There is no need to exaggerate - I don't have any illusions. It is impossible to fundamentally change relationships in a single meeting or in just one visit. In my opinion, the most valuable outcome of this particular visit was that we began engaging in a very sincere and open dialogue where points of agreement and disagreement were clearly identified. Things were stated openly.
Natasha Gurevich: What was the key success of this visit? Please tell us briefly.
Mr. Avigdor Liberman: In recent years, Russia has advanced in giant steps and has developed leadership in our world. One must give Russia credit for having produced an entire generation of dynamic young leaders, including Vladimir Putin and the current President, Dmitry Medvedev. As a team, they are young and charismatic, not to mention experienced and well-educated. When compared with the traditional Politburo, you realize what radical changes have taken place in modern-day Russia. Additionally, Russia, more than anyone, is very familiar with terror. Russia itself has suffered from double standards. It is for this reason that we are striving to persuade Russia. Israel has always taken a consistent line. Even when the entire world condemned Russia for its actions in Chechnya, we were the only parliament in the world that supported Russia's actions.
Unfortunately, it is impossible to discuss the most important achievements on television. Nonetheless, we did reach an agreement on cooperation in two completely new economic sectors - outer space research and innovative technologies. We have agreed that the Russian Federal Space Agency "Roscosmos" and our Israel Space Agency will sign an agreement. We reached an agreement in principle with the Federal Agency for Science and Innovation of the Russian Federation on cooperation and the establishment of a joint fund. Anatoly Chubais heads the Russian side of this initiative. In addition, work needs to be done on the long-overdue law on protection of investments. Of course, apart from these developments, there were many other points and additional dimensions, but the most important outcome is that we engaged in sincere dialogue and outlined all of our respective points of agreement and disagreement.
Natasha Gurevich: Mr. Liberman, thank you for this interview. Thank you for coming to speak with us in our studio.
Mr. Avigdor Liberman: Thank you.