Urgent: Appel aux arguments

Publié le par JSS

Dans le cadre d'un débat organisé demain à Jérusalem, je suis appelé à débattre avec les représentants de l'Association israélienne d'extrême gauche, B Tselem.
Je suis certain que la plupart des lecteurs du blog JSS connaissent cette ONG qui, par exemple, donne des caméras aux palestiniens pour "filmer la barbarie israélienne"...
N'ayant pas vraiment énormément de temps pour tout rechercher sur l'association, ses pratiques, etc... J'en appel à l'aide de tous! J'ai, vous l'imaginez, déjà quelques petites phrases intéressantes... Mais ce n'est pas assez !
Alors, s'il vous plait, imaginez, vous débattez avec eux (de manière civique!)... Comment les démontez-vous ? Quels arguments ?
Merci pour votre précieuse aide !

Publié dans Israel-Territoires Disputés

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A
Aschkel
26/02/2009 00:03
Ca fait 3008 de trop a mon humble avis !Tu as raison virons les bodeguim !
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J
joel
25/02/2009 20:58
Le 8 dec 2008 , sur Houmous passait cette vidéo sur Betselem:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKMxyuh0ntode 2300 entrées , elle est passée à 3008 , c'est dire le peu d'interêt que prête l'opinion à ces groupuscules anti-israeliens .BIBI se decidera-t-il à faire le ménage ?Trop de Démocratie tue LA Démocratie !
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A
Aschkel
25/02/2009 18:32
Salut Gadouches shéli
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G
Gad
25/02/2009 18:01
Salut Jonath, déjà Aschkel, hors-sujet! Non, mais sans blague! Joyeux anniversaire Jonathan!Bon, la veille pour le lendemain, ça nous laisse toute la nuit (pour faire la fête).Tu dois connaître Gerald Steinberg et son NGO-Monitor, http://www.ngo-monitor.org/article.php?viewall=yes&id=1418  qui a constitué depuis de longues années (enfin quelques-unes) quasiment un dossier complet sur les biais de chaque ONG. J'avais cherché à B tselem, il y a un peu mais pas beaucoup. Mais ce serait intéressant de travailler sur quelques cas d'école. Il y a au moins deux à trois sujets cruciaux : - la politisation judiciaire dans les conflits (Gaza)- la politisation des ONG, via Durban II : dossier : <br /> 10) B´Tselem<br /> B’Tselem has issued several highly emotive “testimonies” of Gazans purporting to document civilian suffering. The NGO has published no testimonies of Israelis suffering under Hamas’ rocket attacks.<br /> Testimony: "A-Shtiwi family members were sieged in their house in 12 days of shelling. When they evacuated, the army demolished their house, January 2009" (Hebrew) January 19, 2009<br /> Press release: "Israel held many Gaza prisoners in harsh and humiliating conditions and threatened their lives and their health," January 28, 2009<br /> <br />   Signed by ACRI, PCATI, HaMoked, PHR-I, B'Tselem, Yesh-Din and Adalah, and was sent to the Attorney General and the Military Judge Advocate General.<br /> "The evidence described in the letter provides a shocking portrayal of the harsh, inhuman and degrading conditions in which Palestinian prisoners were held during the initial days of their incarceration. The reports indicate, among other things, that many detainees – minors as well as adults – were held for many hours – sometimes for days - in pits dug in the ground, exposed to bitter cold and harsh weather, handcuffed and blindfolded. These pits lacked basic sanitary facilities which would have allowed the detainees appropriate toilet facilities, while food and shelter, when provided, were limited, and the detainees went hungry. More seriously, some of the detainees were held near tanks and in combat areas, in gross violation of international humanitarian law which prohibits holding prisoners and captives in areas exposed to danger."<br />  "Inappropriate treatment of the detainees continued after they were removed from the pits in which they had been held. For example: Some were held overnight in a truck, handcuffed, with one blanket for every two people; some were held for a long time in the rain; there was a lack of blankets, food and water; and there were also incidents involving extreme violence and humiliation by soldiers and interrogators, regarding which complaints will be submitted separately Detainees continued to be held in humiliating conditions even after being transferred to an IDF prison facility (located, apparently, at the Sdeh Tayman base) where, for example, they were not provided with toilets or showers."<br /> <br /> Press release: "Extra-judicial executions of alleged collaborators by Hamas," January 26, 2009<br /> <br />  "In light of the current circumstances in the Gaza Strip, B'Tselem cannot investigate fully these reports, or provide the exact number of the people killed in these events, or their identity."<br /> <br /> Ad, Share your situation with us, no date [in Arabic, the ad includes a photo of a burning house in Gaza].<br /> <br />  “Help us to inform the world what is going on in Gaza. Use your cell phones or video cameras to film the events and send them to here. We will do what we can to inform the world about situation in which you live in Gaza.”<br /> <br /> Press release, Suspicion that soldiers shot Palestinian farmer to death today without warning, January 18, 2009 <br /> <br /> "A farmer from the Huza´ah village, Maher Abd al-Athim Yusuf Abu-Rajileh, age 24, was killed this morning by Israeli gunfire while working his land, some 400 meters from the Israeli border. His brother, Dr. Wissam Abu-Rijleh, told B´Tselem that in spite of the ceasefire, the soldiers opened fire without warning at dozens of farmers, killed Abu-Rajileh."<br /> "According to Dr. Abu- Rajileh, who spoke on the phone with B’Tselem’s researcher, following Israel’s declaration of a ceasefire, he went out with his family to their fields to survey the damage causes by the recent military operation. They went to the fields along with other residents of this village, located south-east of Khan Yunis. They reached the fields around 8:00 am, and were alarmed to see the extent of the destruction, which they described as if a tsunami had struck the area. According to Abu Rajileh, the agricultural area, including olive and fruit trees and greenhouses, as well as some 30 homes in the neighborhood closest to the border, were completely destroyed. The Abu- Rajileh family tried to salvage some trees that had been uprooted and buried, in order to use them for firewood. Dozens of people were there at the time, surveying the damage. Some Israeli jeeps were positioned on the border but the area was quiet."<br /> <br /> Press release, Soldiers kills father and 4-years-old son and wound other family members in their home, a-Zeitun neighborhood, Gaza City, <br /> <br /> "Soldiers fired a shell that landed near the family home. ‘Attiyah a-Samuni, the father, left the door to the house open to ensure minimum harm to the house and its occupants if soldiers wished to enter it. A few minutes later, soldiers arrived at the house and called on the father of the family to step out. As ‘Attiyah a-Samuni approached the door, one of the soldiers ordered him to raise his hands and then, without warning, the soldiers opened fire and killed him, in front of his family. They then continued to shoot into the room in which the family was gathered, injuring several members."<br /> "A short while later, the soldiers ordered the remaining family members to leave the house, wounded and healthy alike. After they had walked less than a kilometer, another group of soldiers ordered them back to the a-Samuni section, denying them the possibility of getting the wounded persons to hospital. The family found shelter with a relative, and the wounded were left untreated until the next morning. The next day, 5.1.09, 4-year-old Ahmad a-Samuni died of the wounds he had received to the chest."<br /> <br /> Press release, "B´Tselem: stop the fighting immediately," January 15, 2009<br /> <br /> "Since 27 December, Israel has waged a military campaign in the Gaza Strip with disastrous consequences for the civilian population. Some one and a half million are living in terror of the Israeli shelling. The humanitarian distress has reached dire proportions, which the limited measures taken by the military have failed to address. So far, over one thousand Palestinians have been killed, among them at least 300 children and ninety-five women; at least 4,800 Palestinians have been injured, more than 400 of them seriously. Tens of thousands have been forced to abandon their homes, without knowing if they will have a place to return to. The damage to civilian infrastructure is unprecedented, many of the injured are prevented access to medical treatment and the electricity, water, and sewage systems are barely functioning."<br /> "The number of Israelis who are exposed to shelling has increased significantly. Some one million Israelis are now living under threat of rocket and missile fire from Gaza, and four persons were killed by missile fire at Israeli communities."<br /> "Continuation of the fighting will bring more death and destruction. Innocent civilians, among them large numbers of children, will be killed and wounded."<br /> "According to media reports, both sides have already agreed to the principle of a ceasefire. Under these circumstances, they must immediately stop the fighting."<br /> <br /> Testimony, "The Army shelled the house of the Hamuda family in Tel-Al-Hawa, killing two of the children of the family and severely injuring the mother," January 09, January 12, 2009 [in Hebrew, by telephone]<br /> <br /> "They took my wife to the Trauma Unit, and later they transferred her to Intensive Care Unit, and they prepared her for surgery. Ihab had some light wounds, and they treated him and released him. We buried both of my sons in the same day. I don´t wish anybody to lose his children. They are so precious. The hours which passed us were so hard, and we saw some things which you can not describe. Whoever that will see our house after the shelling, will not believe that live people came out of it. We were saved only because of the mercy of god."<br /> <br /> Testimony, "The army has banished the residents of the Azbat Abed Rabu neighborhood which is east to Gaza City, January 2009," January 11, 2009 [in Hebrew, by telephone]<br /> <br /> "At Sunday, 4.1.2009, 13:30, the Israeli army came to our area. Soldiers have made us to leave our houses. There were about 1000 people from the neighborhood in the street. Except for the families which had sick people, and the soldiers let them stay in their houses. They made us stand in a line. We were very scared. The children cry. In the skies, plains shelled close places."<br /> "After about two hours, the soldiers told us to go and they led us towards the direction of Jabalia city. The group of the 40 men which the soldiers picked stayed behind. While we walked, the soldiers told us not to look to our side, and they threatened us with their weapons. They said that they will shoot whoever that will look back. We did what they said."<br /> <br /> Press release,Israeli Human rights Groups: Clear and present danger to the lives and well-being of tend of thousands of civilians, January 14, 2009 Signed by Adalah, Amnesty, Bimkom, B´Tselem, Gisha, HaMoked, PHR-I, PCATI and Yesh Din.<br /> <br /> "Since the beginning of the campaign in Gaza on December 27, a heavy suspicion has arisen of grave violations of international humanitarian law by military forces. After the end of the hostilities, the time will come for the investigation of this matter, and accountability will be demanded of those responsible for the violations. At this point we call your attention to the clear and present danger to the lives and well-being of tens of thousands of civilians."<br /> <br /> "The level of harm to the civilian population is unprecedented. According to the testimony of residents of the Gaza Strip and media reports, military forces are making wanton use of lethal force which has to date caused the deaths of hundreds of uninvolved civilians and destroyed infrastructure and property on an enormous scale. In addition, Israel is also hitting civilian objects, having defined them as ‘legitimate military targets’ solely by virtue of their being ´symbols of government.´" Press release, Witness reports that Israeli soldiers shot woman waiving white flag in Gaza Strip, January 13, 2009<br /> <br /> "Although B´Tselem cannot, at present, independently verify or disprove the witness´s claims, it believes their severity merits immediate notification of the media".<br /> <br /> Testimony,Luay Subuch, got blind in a shelling in which one of his friends have been killed and another was wounded, Beit-Lahiya, 7.1.09, January 12, 2009 [in Hebrew, by telephone]<br /> Press release,Israel is using phosphorus illegally in Gaza Strip bombings, January 12, 2009<br /> <br /> "Information received by B´Tselem and several media reports indicate that the army is using phosphorous in the Gaza Strip. This weapon serves primarily to create screening, enabling forces to advance on the ground without being exposed. In addition, however, the phosphorous burns everything in comes in contact with, causing severe burns to humans. It is also capable of setting buildings and fields on fire."<br /> "The use of such a weapon in a densely populated civilian area like the Gaza Strip breaches these two principles, and violates Israel’s obligation to take every possible precaution to limit harm to civilians. B´Tselem demands that the army immediately cease using phosphorous in the Gaza Strip."<br /> <br /> Press release,Hitting the UNRWA school – firing indiscriminate weapon, January 11, 2009 [in Hebrew] Testimony,The house of the Halima family went on fire due to hit by shells, and the family was burned to death, January 9 2009 [in Hebrew]<br /> Press release,Army must allow evacuations of wounded and trapped civilians, January 8, 2009<br /> Testimony,Soldiers Killed and Injured dozens of persons from a-Samuni family in a-Zeitun neighborhood, Gaza, Jan. ´09, January 7 [by telephone]<br /> Testimony,Jihad Abu-Jabara, A crippled pensioner was killed with two of his sons, while his house was shelled in the refugee camp of El-Bureij, January ´09, January 7, 2009 [by telephone, in Hebrew]<br /> Testimony,The army has shelled the house of the A-Daya family in Gaza City, 21 people of the family were killed, January ´09, January 7, 2009 [by telephone, in Hebrew]<br /> B´Tselem: Evacuate wounded trapped in buildings shelled by Israeli army<br /> Testimony,The al-A´aidi family, 8 are lightly injured, and are trapped in a shelled house in Jouchar a-Dik, January 09(by telephone, in Hebrew), January 7, 2009<br /> "International law and Humanitarian law are not only for intellectuals and academics" January 6, 2009 (*Interview with Jessica Montell, Director of B’Tselem)<br /> No testimonies of Israeli victims of Hamas rocket and mortar attacks.<br /> Testimony,Salama and Majda abu-Hajaj, a mother and her daughter, were killed in a shelling in the center of the strip, January 2009(by telephone, in Hebrew), January, 6, 2009<br /> Testimony,Three kids were killed in a shelling while they were playing with a dog in the street in Han-Yunes, January 09, (by telephone, in Hebrew) January 5, 2009<br /> Testimony,Osama a-Nabahin and his family leave their house out of fear of Israeli attacks, 3 January 2009(by telephone), January 4, 2009<br /> Testimony, Abu Dahruj family flee their shelled neighborhood in central Gaza Strp, 3 January 2009(by telephone), January 4, 2009<br /> Testimony,The Asliya family is living in anxiety and shortage in the shadow of the siege and the bombing in the Strip, January 09, January 4, 2009 (In Hebrew, through telephone)<br /> Testimony,Ambulance and medical staff fired at while evacuating wounded people, January 4, 2009 (through telephone)<br /> Testimony,Children witness their mother and another woman killed by fire from a tank, Gaza Strip, Jan´ 09, January 4, 2009 <br /> Testimony,Two of Jihad a-Nasleh´s children were killed in his home, bombed in Gaza City, January 4, 2009 <br /> Press Release,The Killing of Nizar Rayan and 13 people from his Family, January 4, 2009 (In Hebrew) "[S]uch a wide-scale hit of civilians is a severe violation of international humanitarian law. In the given circumstances today in the Gaza Strip, it is hard to think of a clear military advantage which could be accomplished with shelling the house and the killing of Rayan . . .” Testimony,Life in Gaza under siege and bombardment, January 1, 2009 <br /> Testimony,El-Abed A-Shafai was arrested for selling cigarettes in the street and was killed in the police station shelling, December 2008, December 31, 2008 [by telephone, in Hebrew]<br /> Testimony through telephone,Three-year-old killed in Israeli bombing of building next to his home, Gaza City, Dec. ´08, December 31, 2008<br /> Testimony,Five daughters of the Ba´alusha family were killed when the army has shelled a mosque which was next to their house, December 2008, 30/12/08,by Muhammad Sabach through telephone Testimony,A young women and an 8 years old girl were killed in their house in a shelling of the Zaitun neighborhood in the city of Gaza, 30/12/08, by Haled Azaiyza.<br /> Testimony,Haled El-Astel, 14 years old, was killed in a shelling in Han-Yunes, December ´08, December 30, 2008 [by telephone, in Hebrew]<br /> Press release, December 31 2008 Suspicion: bombed truck carried oxygen tanks and not grad rockets <br /> <br /> "B’Tselem received the testimony of Ahmad Sanur, the owner of the truck bombed. Sanur claims the truck was carrying oxygen canisters used for welding, not Grad rockets. B´Tselem field worker took photos of oxygen canisters left on the site of the bombing. According to Sanur’s testimony, he and members of his family were trying to salvage material from a metal workshop he owns, which was next door to a bombed house, in order to prevent looting. He denies any connection to militants, or military activity, and is willing to talk to any journalist, or investigator".<br /> <br /> "B´Tselem to Mazuz: a concern that Israel is targeting its attacks on civilian objects" (Hebrew) December 31, 2008<br /> <br /> "The principle of differentiation, which stands at the base of humanitarian International law, states that the fighting sides must differentiate between civilian objects and military targets and they are not allowed to deliberately strike civilians and civilian objects. …<br /> "The claim that striking these kinds of objectives goes well with the instructions of the humanitarian international law has no basis. This interpretation, which regard these bodies as military targets, broadens the instructions of the humanitarian international law in a way which does not fit well with the instructions which were written above and it contradicts the principle of differentiation which stand in the base of the humanitarian international law. Deliberate harm of civilian targets is a war crime."<br /> <br /> "Protect civilians from the impact of hostilities" December 30, 2008<br /> <br /> "B´Tselem reiterates its demand that all parties to the hostilities prevent harm to civilians. The rules of war obligate all parties to a conflict to do their utmost to defend the civilian population. Deliberate targeting of civilians is expressly prohibited."<br /> <br /> Testimony,Three Children killed in bombing of their home, 28 Dec. 08´, December 29, 2008<br /> • "Even though the armed men had left, I was afraid that the helicopters would return. I decided to take my whole family to a relative who lives a bit farther away".<br /> B´Tselem did not comment immediately after the Israeli operation began. They did release a relatively "balanced" statement on December 25, 2008, "Targeting civilians is forbidden," which condemned "Rocket attacks against civilians [as] a war crime… Israel is obligated to defend its civilians, but it must do so in compliance with international humanitarian law."<br /> <br />
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A
Aschkel
25/02/2009 17:54
Oui bien sur ! bsélem n'est pas venu filmé chez moi à Aschkélon, ni même à sdérot pendant ces dernières années, lorsque les civils israeliens s'en prenait plein la tête...Mais je pense qu'il n'ont cure des civils israeliens.Alors s'il leur importe que de défendre les droits des palestiniens, qu'ils aillent donc donner des caméras aux opposants du Hamas à Gaza, pour voir comment il se font jeter du haut des immeubles, ou encore mutiler ou tuer.Comment le Hamas revend l'aide humanitaire aux Gazaouis ....etc...
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